{"id":2132,"date":"2022-11-01T09:23:37","date_gmt":"2022-11-01T09:23:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/?p=2132"},"modified":"2023-12-08T12:07:07","modified_gmt":"2023-12-08T12:07:07","slug":"types-of-comment-on-oatlands-commonplace-page","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/2022\/11\/01\/types-of-comment-on-oatlands-commonplace-page\/","title":{"rendered":"Types of Comment on Oatlands Commonplace Page"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"color:#D06060\">Types of Comment on Oatlands Commonplace Page<\/span><\/h1>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-post-date\"><time datetime=\"2022-11-01T09:23:37+00:00\">1 November 2022<\/time><\/div>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"460\" height=\"307\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/oatlands-drive-cyclist-1-460.jpg\" alt=\"Cycling on Oatlands Drive\" class=\"wp-image-2134\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/oatlands-drive-cyclist-1-460.jpg 460w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/oatlands-drive-cyclist-1-460-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 460px) 100vw, 460px\" \/><figcaption>Cycling on Oatlands Drive<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>A consultation about the Oatlands ward of Harrogate is taking place right now, <a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/2022\/10\/25\/oatlands-drive-the-cycle-lanes-are-wide-enough-but-very-rarely-used\/\">as I mentioned a few days ago<\/a>. The question asked on <a href=\"https:\/\/oatlands.commonplace.is\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Commonplace<\/a> is &#8216;what would make it easier for you to choose to walk and cycle?&#8217;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It is fascinating to read the comments &#8211; 320 of them so far, with another 345 agreements. There are recurring themes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>These are some of the types of comment that people have made.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">1) Cycle Lanes on Oatlands Drive<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-2-annotated.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-2-annotated-500.jpg\" alt=\"Widths on Oatlands Drive\" class=\"wp-image-2195\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-2-annotated-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-2-annotated-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Widths on Oatlands Drive<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>A lot of commenters ask for cycle lanes on Oatlands Drive. That&#8217;s because it&#8217;s one of the options you can select in response to the question &#8216;How could we make this location better?&#8217;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s good to provide options but they don&#8217;t convey enough nuance here, because width of cycle lanes and physical protection from traffic are key. There are already cycle lanes on Oatlands Drive but they are paint only with no protection, and way too narrow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One commenter hits the nail on the head here:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;The cycle lane is actually worse than having no lane as cars see it as segregated lane and pass really close in their lane.&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about oatlands drive on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>On Oatlands Drive, the traffic lanes are about 2m60 wide, and the cycle lanes are about 1m. The cycle lanes need to be double their present width, with physical protection from traffic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, the only reason a 2m60 traffic lane is acceptable is because drivers can drift into the cycle lanes. If the cycle lanes were kerb-protected, 2m60 would not be enough. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The bus pictured below demonstrates this well: there isn&#8217;t space for the bus in the traffic lane, so it encroaches on the cycle lane.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-3.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-3-500.jpg\" alt=\"Bus on Oatlands Drive\" class=\"wp-image-2197\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-3-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-3-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Bus on Oatlands Drive<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Anyone fancy their 8-year-old child or 80-year-old grandparent cycling in there? Thought not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because of these space constraints the only way to provide proper cycle facilities is to make the road one way for motor vehicles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One commenter disagrees with me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;Making this road one way to accommodate cyclists is simply stupid.&#8217; <\/p><cite>comment about oatlands drive on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s someone who doesn&#8217;t ride a bike on Oatlands Drive, and I would stake \u20ac1.50 on it. In reality the choice is between one way or no meaningful cycle provision.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hearteningly no one has so far agreed with that particular comment. Still, there&#8217;s sometimes a gap between what people would like in theory, and what they are prepared to support when it comes to specific proposals that have to fit within the bounds of physical reality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The percentage of people supporting better cycle provision and the percentage supporting making Oatlands one way should be the same, but is it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">2) Parking on the Stray<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;Make both sides of the road double yellow lines at the Stray end of Oatlands Drive. When cars are parked in the cycle lane it pushes cyclists out into the main road and also makes it difficult to drive along the road safely if there is traffic going both ways as the road is not wide enough to take two lanes of motorised traffic as well as cycles in the cycle lane heading to York Place. Maybe a cycle lane could be put in on the Stray itself to keep cyclists safely out of the way of traffic.&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about oatlands drive on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m not in favour of parking in the cycle lane and on the Stray, but it&#8217;s a red herring in terms of cycle safety. The cycle lanes are too narrow and provide no protection. They are unsafe regardless of parking on the Stray.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The comment above is reasonably thoughtful and recognises some of the problems. I would say that the suggested solution of a cycle track on the Stray doesn&#8217;t work, though.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you put in a bit of cycle track on the northern part of Oatlands Drive and abandon people on the southern part past the school, you might as well not bother. A cycle route is only as good as its weakest link.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">3) Slowing Down and Reducing Traffic<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In response to the question &#8216;How could we make this location better&#8217;, some of the options which people have selected include:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>slow down traffic<\/li><li>reduce the amount of traffic<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, most people support these ideas <em>in theory<\/em>, but would they support the practical measures needed to achieve them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Slower Speeds<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We all want slower speeds for other people, but are we prepared to support the measures that would ensure slower speeds if they inconvenience us? Here&#8217;s one commenter&#8217;s view.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;&#8230;introduce traffic calming measures (NOT SPEED BUMPS) to slow down traffic&#8230;&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about oatlands drive on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>No one has agreed with that comment, so it may be an isolated opinion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Personally I think that we should reduce speed, and we should put in as much traffic-calming as is necessary to achieve it, including speed bumps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Reducing Traffic<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We all want less traffic, but what measures would achieve that and are we prepared to support them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The most effective way of reducing traffic would be to make Oatlands Drive one way. That is a bold and effective, but also controversial, idea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What else could you do? One possibility is to make Oatlands Drive 20mph and put in a lot of traffic calming so it is slower and less convenient to drive along there. That might reduce traffic a little but, I suspect, not very much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">3) Better Crossings for Slingsby Walk<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-6.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-6-500.jpg\" alt=\"Wetherby Road crossing\" class=\"wp-image-2198\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-6-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-6-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Wetherby Road crossing<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>This is one point on which there seems to be a consensus. When walking or riding along Slingsby Walk it is too difficult to cross:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Oatlands Drive and<\/li><li>Wetherby Road<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Indeed there is such a concentration of comments on the map where Slingsby Walk crosses Oatlands Drive that I can&#8217;t read them. This appears to be a technical fault &#8211; you can&#8217;t zoom in enough to separate out the comments, and you can&#8217;t click on multiple comments to read them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>At the crossing of Oatlands Drive as well as a parallel crossing would it be too much to ask to put in dropped kerbs that actually face each other and align with the paths?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-1.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-1-500.jpg\" alt=\"Misaligned dropped kerbs, crossing of Oatlands Drive\" class=\"wp-image-2207\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-1-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-1-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Misaligned dropped kerbs, crossing of Oatlands Drive<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>At Wetherby Road it is often hard to cross due to the sheer volume of traffic, and a parallel crossing is much-needed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-5.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-5-500.jpg\" alt=\"Traffic on Wetherby Road\" class=\"wp-image-2211\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-5-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-5-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Traffic on Wetherby Road<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">4) LTN in the Saints<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;This is used as a rat-run from the town centre via Oatlands Drive\/St Hilda&#8217;s to the Woodlands junction. Some of these roads need to be closed off and make the area into and LTN.&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about the saints on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>I agree with that comment about one of the residential streets in the Saints. I&#8217;m sure most Saints residents do not want their residential area to be used by through traffic. Someone on St Helen&#8217;s Road notes:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>too much traffic<\/li><li>idling vehicles<\/li><li>high traffic speeds<\/li><li>high speeds mainly by those using the road as a cut through<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Would most residents support modal filters to cut out through traffic, even though that would also make their own trips by car slightly less convenient? I&#8217;m less confident about that. There would certainly be opposition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s where you need a council committed to taking meaningful measures to reduce traffic and to making active travel safer. You need a council with an active travel strategy and the will to implement it. Have we got one? Most of the evidence so far suggests not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">5) Parking in the Saints<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-7.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"333\" src=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-7-500.jpg\" alt=\"Parking on St Winifred's Road\" class=\"wp-image-2201\" srcset=\"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-7-500.jpg 500w, https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/oatlands-22-7-500-300x200.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><\/a><figcaption>Parking on St Winifred&#8217;s Road<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>A number of comments on Commonplace concern parking in the Saints residential area, with complaints about hospital staff parking there. 6th formers from St Aidan&#8217;s parking on St Winifred&#8217;s Road and elsewhere are also not that popular.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Parking is an option that people can select from a menu, but presumably it is there because of the impact it can have on active travel. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The comments on Commonplace are from residents who would prefer that hospital staff and St Aidan&#8217;s pupils did not park on the streets where they live. That is understandable, but isn&#8217;t really relevant to active travel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some of the parking commenters have selected both:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>more parking and<\/li><li>less parking<\/li><\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Presumably that means &#8216;more parking for me&#8217; but &#8216;less parking for everyone else&#8217;! I suppose you could achieve that with a residents&#8217; parking scheme.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">6) Everything is Fine<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>This is one of the options available on Commonplace and a few people have used it to say they want everything left exactly as it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;As you would expect it is busy around 8.30-9am and 3.30-3.50pm due to schools and rush hour. However as a resident with children who go to the local school, walker, cyclist and driver the rounds around the Stray work well. In addition I see no problem with cars parked on Oatlands Drive (Stray area) when their children are playing football etc on Stray. It is for a limited time each week.&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about oatlands area on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>In reality the cycle provision on Oatlands Drive isn&#8217;t anywhere near minimum standards and is dangerous, and if the commenter used it regularly they could not fail to notice this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Only a few people persist in cycling despite the lack of safe provision, and most of them actively avoid the Oatlands Drive cycle lanes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">7) Openly Anti-Cycling Comments<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>&#8216;Stop pandering to these cycle who are just a bunch of older men, not children. Parents need to park their cars next to the Stray to watch and pick-up their children. Oatlands Drive is the main artery of our area and should be left alone. These cycling groups will ruin Harrogate for their own gain and destroy business in the town centre.&#8217;<\/p><cite>comment about oatlands drive on commonplace<\/cite><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>That definitely isn&#8217;t the answer to the question &#8216;what would make it easier for you to choose to walk or cycle?&#8217; And when you genuinely make it easier for people to walk or cycle, look what happens.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Cycling to school; Culemborg (Netherlands) [149]\" width=\"750\" height=\"422\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/OrQ-d2PBUto?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Types of Comment on Oatlands Commonplace Page A consultation about the Oatlands ward of Harrogate is taking place right now, as I mentioned a few days ago. The question asked on Commonplace is &#8216;what would make it easier for you<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":2134,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[67,20,71],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2132","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-harrogate","category-harrogate-cycling","category-oatlands"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2132","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2132"}],"version-history":[{"count":58,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2132\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2222,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2132\/revisions\/2222"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2134"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2132"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2132"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/hedgehogcycling.co.uk\/wp\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2132"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}